tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post3244686132138092563..comments2024-02-18T15:43:14.717-05:00Comments on Moved to LivinLaVidaLowCarb.com/Blog: Why I Was Somewhat Disappointed With The July 2008 New England Journal Weight Loss StudyJimmy Moorehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08590225257991702645noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post-79423691457998249982008-07-30T13:16:00.000-04:002008-07-30T13:16:00.000-04:00I don't know about the rest of the country, but in...I don't know about the rest of the country, but in my area, the media coverage about this study has already motivated retailers to put low-carb products "out front" again. The last time low-carb got favorable media coverage, the shelves were full; but then slowly, as the powerhouses of the medical/health industry rebutted that low-carb is "indeed bad" for you and is a "fad" diet, the products became increasingly difficult to find. Two weeks ago, I noticed that a local pharmacy that once sold three brands of low-carb shakes was selling only one brand and had only one slot on the shelf allocated. Yesterday, I noticed they had six shelf spaces allocated and are back to carrying three brands again. And I'm now seeing "diet" beverages that have long been sugar-free suddenly being labeled "low-carb". It's a cycle. There will be some study soon, I imagine, that will show low-carb to be inferior to low-fat and the whole cycle will start over again. For me, this latest study reiterates what I've always known: low-carb works for me, the proof is in the mirror. Lee in NashvilleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post-63739404107848143882008-07-29T23:48:00.000-04:002008-07-29T23:48:00.000-04:00I was shocked at the small amount of weight lost b...I was shocked at the small amount of weight lost by the low-carb group - a validation of the impact of the high threshold of carbs allowed of course. We all know that if they had kept that level closer to Atkins phase one or two the weight loss would have been amazing. The good things that come from this are, to me, the press attention and the discussion among people. In addition, I am hoping that a secondary gain will be seen in the marketplace with new low carb choices proudly displayed once again in our grocery stores and eating establishments. Thanks Jimmy for carrying on this work. Katie SeltzAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post-47619384493349400362008-07-29T22:06:00.000-04:002008-07-29T22:06:00.000-04:00It seems to me that these studies could include a ...It seems to me that these studies could include a smaller group of participants, say 10% of each of the large study groups, split into three more additional groups of 3.3% as tester groups within each whole group? -- So if there were a thousand participants in each of the three groups, similar to this study, there would be a total of three thousand individual studies.<BR/><BR/>Of these ,one hundred or 10% of each of these three groups would then be split into 33 participants in three additional groups making one large group of 900 case studies and 33 and 33 and 33 additional case studies for each of the three groups.<BR/><BR/>For instance, now the low carb group, could do 33 of what we call zero carb diets. Then 33 at 50 carbs and 33 additionally at the 120 carbs per day level, lets say.<BR/><BR/>The other two groupings would do the same in perspective to each ones guidelines.<BR/><BR/>This way we would have limited results from each of the three groups smaller 'tester' three groups as well as the larger groups while the larger group studies are still not being interrupted.<BR/><BR/>I believe that some astonishing results would begin to unfold.<BR/><BR/>I learned this method trapping leeches here in Minnesota.<BR/><BR/>An Indian friend of mine and I trapped these leeches for more than 20 years together. -- He is known to be one of the best trappers that there is. He hunts deer like rabbits.<BR/><BR/>We would set leech traps all around each of the lakes and ponds just like everybody else did. Hundreds of trappers on thousands of lakes.<BR/><BR/>The fishermen use the leeches for fishing bait similar to night crawlers or worms.<BR/><BR/>Jim and I would set test traps, in addition to the main string of traps, out into the center of the lake and at various depths as well as the immediate shoreline. -- Most traps and trappers set there lines of traps about ten to fifteen feet from the shoreline in a big circle and that's it. This was the norm and had expected results which was usually fair to good to extremely good depending on the time of the year and the weather conditions and the bottom and etc etc.<BR/><BR/>If there catches were down then that was that.<BR/><BR/>Jim and I on the other hand would find the leeches if they were there and move our traps accordingly. -- Sometimes all the way to the immediate shore right where it touches land and sometimes in the far deep. We would continue to catch them.<BR/><BR/>Had we not run the test traps out of the norm we would not have known they were there and would have done like everybody else and gotten the same results.<BR/><BR/>I'm not so naive as to think that these study specialists and there designers and implementers aren't aware of this method and that it is not a routine part of there methodology, I'm just encouraging that there be more of the same.<BR/><BR/>Had this been implemented in this proving ground study here, I believe that, again, some astonishing results would have been found!Tom Bunnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11840576840382147883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post-23638298160848307722008-07-29T14:35:00.000-04:002008-07-29T14:35:00.000-04:00That's so awesome, Ab! :)That's so awesome, Ab! :)Jimmy Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08590225257991702645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post-15519543030747130002008-07-29T14:22:00.000-04:002008-07-29T14:22:00.000-04:00I was delighted with the headlines, but like you.....I was delighted with the headlines, but like you...not ecstatic about the details....<BR/>on a bright note....my mother now thinks low carb is the answer...she has lost weight using it before, but was always concerned if you stayed with it a long time....well since my 15 months of LLVLC and this article, she has started LLVLC again herself!<BR/>...and she is now 79 years old...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post-78293998911598851752008-07-29T13:53:00.000-04:002008-07-29T13:53:00.000-04:00Bummer! While it's nice to have even these "small...Bummer! While it's nice to have even these "small" comparisons with such minimal weight and health differences between the various nutritional groups, it'd be awesome if just ONCE we could see a true comparison. Is that expecting too much? I think the public deserves better than what we're getting out of the research world.Jimmy Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08590225257991702645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post-66486998103872310742008-07-29T12:20:00.000-04:002008-07-29T12:20:00.000-04:00What about that NIH study Gary Taubes was talking ...<I>What about that NIH study Gary Taubes was talking about in the Tierney post? Could that one possibly hold promise of a true low-carb (under 20g carbohydrate) diet being compared with a truly low-fat (under 10% of caloric intake) diet at last?</I><BR/><BR/>I doubt we'll see anything new...since the subjects are likely on their own.....I think we'll see they lost some weight, the LC group probably more, made some health improvements (the trial wasn't halted, so that at least tells us neither diet was killing folks in the long-term)....and their weight rebounded over the long-term. Same old story because they (researchers) haven't changed the formula, just the macronutrients. I'm looking forward to seeing it....but expect it's a lot of the same with interferance on what to eat, how to include fats, etc..https://www.blogger.com/profile/09224160356421549054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post-3300011274819411802008-07-29T11:42:00.000-04:002008-07-29T11:42:00.000-04:00What about that NIH study Gary Taubes was talking ...What about that NIH study Gary Taubes was talking about in the Tierney post? Could that one possibly hold promise of a true low-carb (under 20g carbohydrate) diet being compared with a truly low-fat (under 10% of caloric intake) diet at last? I know it's in peer review right now, but do you see anything new coming out of it when it is finally published?<BR/><BR/>I agree, people left to their own devices usually fall back into old habits again. I suppose the good news is they didn't cumulatively GAIN weight over the two years which is a minor miracle in the case of many...myself included. :)Jimmy Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08590225257991702645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post-30707160450019108972008-07-29T10:32:00.000-04:002008-07-29T10:32:00.000-04:00The average weight loss was just 12 pounds over tw...<I>The average weight loss was just 12 pounds over two years on the Atkins diet. That's PATHETIC! Am I being unreasonable wanting to see what would happen on a truly low-carb diet for two years?<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>I agree....the main problem is that this study, like others, really isn't a weight loss trial - it's a trial that really looks at how folks follow directions when basically on their own. I'm not surprised they lost as little weight as they did - we see it again and again in too many studies!.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09224160356421549054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post-82204076017748198362008-07-29T10:21:00.000-04:002008-07-29T10:21:00.000-04:00THANKS Lora! In the quote from Dr. Shai in answer...THANKS Lora! In the quote from Dr. Shai in answering Dr. Westman's question about what foods were consumed, your answer about the mixing of foods was there. They don't mix certain foods in the same meal which was part of the challenge.<BR/><BR/>As for how they became obese, it doesn't say nor do we know what they ate. Many of them were diabetic--in fact, about 3/4 of the <B>LOW-CARB</B> group were severely diabetic.Jimmy Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08590225257991702645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post-32144780964534577612008-07-29T10:18:00.000-04:002008-07-29T10:18:00.000-04:00THANKS for the clarification, Regina. I guess loo...THANKS for the clarification, Regina. I guess looking at this through the prism of a weight loss diet, why would they ever go that high? <BR/><BR/>When they started on their plan, the study described the participants as "moderately obese." So if they were on 20g carbohydrate for two months (they had to lose a TON of weight during this time!) and then slowly added back in carbs (where the weight they lost probably crept back on somewhat) up to 120g, why would they be in "maintenance" mode when there was still plenty of weight to lose. <BR/><BR/>The average weight loss was just 12 pounds over two years on the Atkins diet. That's PATHETIC! Am I being unreasonable wanting to see what would happen on a truly low-carb diet for two years?Jimmy Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08590225257991702645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post-72547359332087344842008-07-29T07:51:00.000-04:002008-07-29T07:51:00.000-04:00While 20g carbs is indeed the Induction phase of t...<I>While 20g carbs is indeed the Induction phase of the Atkins diet, 120g is nowhere close to ANY phase of the Atkins diet. EVER!</I><BR/><BR/>Atkins for Life includes menus that provide 100g NET carbs each day - depending upon your food choices, that's 120-140g total carbohydrate when you include fiber.<BR/><BR/>DANDR states in the maintenance chapters that 90g or more per day for those who exercise and can maintain at that level is allowed..https://www.blogger.com/profile/09224160356421549054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post-44166799781069775152008-07-29T07:11:00.000-04:002008-07-29T07:11:00.000-04:00Did the study mention the subject's religious affi...Did the study mention the subject's religious affiliation? Jews do not mix dairy and meat in the same meal (butter on steak as an example)nor eat pork or shellfish of any kind. <BR/><BR/>Did the study also mention how they became obese and what type of food was consumed prior to the study?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00013371355223617176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post-67857416676094817342008-07-28T23:00:00.000-04:002008-07-28T23:00:00.000-04:00Thanks JimmyI was traveling and missed this as wel...Thanks Jimmy<BR/>I was traveling and missed this as well. I say keep those studys coming, keep the pressure on the Medical establishment to start telling the truth!!<BR/><BR/>ScottAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12333976.post-65870544464129111512008-07-28T22:54:00.000-04:002008-07-28T22:54:00.000-04:00I kind of had mixed feelings as well. While I was ...I kind of had mixed feelings as well. While I was happy to hear low-carb getting good press, I couldn't help but think that if they did a real low-carb diet that the results would have left the low-fat diet curled up in a ball, sobbing in the corner.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com