Post-Ornish Interview Challenge To Low-Fat And Low-Carb Supporters

Did you enjoy my four-part interview this week with low-fat diet advocate Dr. Dean Ornish? There was obviously so much more I could have asked him during the interview, but that transcript you read was actually less than 40 minutes long when I recorded it. Neither one of us wanted to spend four or five hours on this interview that would have taken a whole month to transcribe and then post the transcript! Nevertheless, it was quite revealing and I hope people learned something new about Dr. Ornish that they never knew before.

Perhaps Dr. Ornish would be willing to do another one again sometime and allow me to delve a little deeper into some of his beliefs and why people who support the low-carb lifestyle think they are grossly erroneous. He certainly seemed interested in coming together with low-carb advocates to help educate others about what they can do to get fit and live a healthier lifestyle. This interview was a very good start in that direction.

Just in case you missed my interview, here are all four parts:

- Extra Calories From Fat Makes You Fat
- HDL Cholesterol 'Garbage Trucks' For Fat, Cholesterol In Body
- Burden Of Proof On Low-Carbers For Supporting Studies
- Low-Carb Blog 'Powerful Force' For Educating On Diet, Health

Before I get into my analysis about what Dr. Ornish had to say during the interview, I thought it would be beneficial to let you know that he was extremely respectful and kind to me throughout the process of setting the interview up all the way to the last words he spoke to me on the telephone. Like him or not for what he believes, Dr. Ornish certainly opened himself up to me to do this interview with him without any pretenses or requirements despite knowing my obvious objections about what he believes. By the way, the words you read in my interview are EXACTLY what he said to me.


Dr. Ornish with his wife Anne and their son Lucas

You may not know this, but Dr. Ornish also got married over the summer to his beautiful bride Anne. When I originally attempted to set up the interview with him back in May, he personally wrote me back about his pending wedding and honeymoon and assured me that he would be very interested in being interviewed by me. After returning from his travels during the summer, we got together just as he promised we would on Tuesday, September 25, 2006.

It was sometimes difficult to hear him during the interview since he was talking on his cell phone with people talking in the background and he was walking and driving during it. Then he had to put me on hold a few times, but apologized profusely for taking time away from the interview when he got back to the phone. Like I said, Dr. Ornish gave me all the professional respect and credence that he would have given a New York Times reporter and I appreciated that very much.

At the end of the interview, Dr. Ornish seemed very sincere in his desire to start working together more with low-carb advocates like me and others to share with people where we have common ground on diet and nutrition. While even he admits there are some pretty major differences of opinion about what a healthy diet is, there are areas where we do agree.

Here are 20 common areas that came out during the interview:

1. Weight loss isn't about low-fat or low-carb.
2. Sugar, white flour, and white rice are not good for you.
3. Fiber-rich fruits and vegetables should be consumed.
4. Take fish oil supplements for adequate omega-3 fatty acids.
5. Most people are eating too many simple carbs in their diet.
6. Sugar and refined carbs are nutritionally deficient.
7. No weight loss plan works for everybody.
8. Diet junk food is not as good for you as whole foods.
9. Dietary recommendations should be based on science.
10. People need a spectrum of dietary choices to choose from.
11. Eating something unhealthy does not ruin your diet.
12. Refusing to call a weight loss program a "diet" to begin with.
13. We must deal with the root cause of most obesity: depression.
14. Sugar substitutes are an excellent alternative to sugar.
15. We need healthier food choices available at restaurants.
16. America is exporting poor dietary habits to other countries.
17. People must be educated about healthy living.
18. Change in diet and lifestyle can make a real difference.
19. A constant goal to help people lose weight and get healthy.
20. Never losing the passion or desire to spread the message.

Granted, there were a lot of things Dr. Ornish said about low-fat diets, HDL, cholesterol, legumes and soy products, fat, heart disease, the Women's Health Initiative study, and saturated fat, among others, that are worthy of debating, but I think those of us who support livin' la vida low-carb should at least attempt to promote all of the things in that list compiled above as areas where both low-fat and low-carb advocates DO agree. That's not an unreasonable request, is it?

The benefactor of doing this is obviously Mr. and Mrs. Overweight and Obese out there who are desperately looking to dig out of their hole of despair and make themselves thinner and healthier. That's a noble cause worth pursuing, right? If so, then why don't we start working together to push these things more often in a combined effort with low-fat supporters? I know, I know, they have said some nasty things about livin' la vida low-carb and we've gotten in our digs, too. But the time for arguing is over because this nation and world is in an obesity crisis!

This is a public challenge to anyone who believes in the principles of low-fat or low-carb: starting today, can we at least agree that those 20 areas of agreement that I found between Dr. Ornish and I are a consensus between us about what a healthy diet should look like? Not to sound too Rodney King-like ("can't we all just get along?"), but we can make a much bigger difference in the lives of those who are so jaded by the infighting among health advocates by converging on the commonalities rather than clashing about our differences. Does anyone disagree?

Dr. Ornish, if you were sincere in your desire to see this change truly come about (and I don't doubt that you were), then I ask you as arguably the most recognized name and face in the low-fat movement to push for this among your supporters and make it a reality henceforth. Likewise, low-carbers need to be open and willing to do the same for the sake of those tens of millions who need to lose weight and get healthy.

Are low-fat advocates and low-carbers up for the challenge?

10-9-06 UPDATE: Well, one low-fat advocate has reached out her hand to my olive branch between low-fat and low-carb. Her name is Fiona Haynes from the About Low-Fat Cooking web site who wrote a fantastic post about my interview with Dr. Ornish.

Here's what she said:

After years of trying to lose weight on a low-fat diet, and failing, Jimmy Moore lost 180 pounds on a low-carb diet. Not surprisingly, he is a tireless and passionate supporter of all things low carb, and pulls no punches with anyone, especially an anti-low-carb media. Recently, Mr. Moore interviewed Dean Ornish, M.D., who is equally passionate about eating low fat as a way to reverse heart disease. Did sparks fly? Find out in Jimmy Moore's fascinating four-part interview with Dean Ornish, published in his Livin' La Vida Low Carb blog. This interview is a must-read for anyone interested in healthy eating and weight loss, regardless of dietary allegiance.

THANK YOU, Fiona, for recognizing that we can and should try to find the common ground so we can help others acheive weight loss and improved health. In the long run, this strategy will work so much better than the constant bickering and backbiting.