Here's Your Chance, Dean Ornish: Admit A High-Fat, Low-Carb Diet Is Healthy

Is Dean Ornish prepared to admit a high-fat, low-carb diet is healthy?

I have had ample opportunities to meet and interview some of the best and brightest minds in the world of diet and health over the past couple of years and I consider it a real privilege and an honor anytime I am afforded the chance to glean from the many years of knowledge and experience that these people possess. As a simple layperson without any medical or nutritional background or education, I am merely a student trying to learn everything he can in order to make informed decisions about what is right for me and my body.

You can read my blog interviews or listen to my podcast interviews which now total well over 100 to see and hear from these amazing people and the fine work they are doing to promote good health. I honestly believe that everyone who is involved in this industry is doing it for the right reasons in their heart of hearts even if they are misguided in some areas. It's okay to have disagreements as long as you don't become disagreeable in the process.

That's sorta what I wanted to talk about today because I received a rather terse e-mail response from noted low-fat diet guru Dr. Dean Ornish (who I have interviewed TWICE in the past two years) earlier this week that accused me of making him out to be a "straw man" with the same old "stereotypes" about him that have existed for decades as the face of the low-fat diet. You'll recall I recently interviewed Dr. Ornish for a four-part podcast about his new book entitled The Spectrum where he supposedly has shifted his dietary philosophy away from a strict low-fat diet into one that allows people to make choices along a spectrum of choices. It's a nice concept on paper and I certainly applauded him for moving away from his dogmatic belief that a low-fat, high-carb diet is the ONLY way to good health.

However, during our interview and while reading through The Spectrum, I couldn't help but notice that despite the grand plans of branching out and broadening his nutritional horizons, not much has changed about what Dr. Dean Ornish actually believes. Once you get into the meat (which, by the way, you can't have according to Dr. Ornish since it is in the "least healthy" Group 5 end of the spectrum) of what he writes, everything he considers "healthy" is merely a bunch of the same old high-carb, low-fat propaganda we've always heard from Dr. Ornish. I explained my concerns about this in great detail in a post-interview blog I wrote a couple of weeks ago.

While I was critical of Dr. Ornish in the blog post (and rightfully so), I still appreciated the open dialog that he invited to discuss and debate the ideas he presented in his book. I have nothing against him personally and he's been nothing but respectful to me in all of our conversations. We just disagree about what a healthy diet looks like a lot more than he wants to admit it. And deep down inside, he knows that.

While he says we all agree and believe many of the same things, I have yet to hear Dr. Dean Ornish confirm that a low-carb nutritional approach may be needed for some people. He's just never done it despite being given several opportunities by me to state it rather explicitly. And even I am the first to admit that low-carb is not necessarily right for everyone. That's why studies have shown you need to find the diet that's right for YOU and then DO IT and I believe that with every fiber of who I am! It simply amazes me that a world-famous diet doctor like Dean Ornish can't even acknowledge this basic truth about health.

And yet after he read this blog post I wrote about Dr. Andrew Weil last weekend where he openly acknowledges the carbohydrate connection to obesity and disease and I made an analogy to how big this news was stating it was tantamount to him coming out and endorsing the Atkins diet, Dr. Ornish became very angry with me and shot off the following e-mail.

Dear Jimmy,

After having such an extended interview in which I thought I was clarifying my position about carbs--including acknowledging that Robert Atkins was right about the unhealthful properties of refined carbohydrates but disagreeing that all carbs are bad and acknowledging that fat also plays an important role in health and illness, especially in weight control--that you continue to use me as a straw man.

In your latest email (referring to my blog post), you write, "This is the equivalent of low-fat diet guru Dr. Dean Ornish coming out and saying that the late great Dr. Robert C. Atkins was right and that there are some people who should be eating more fat and less carbohydrates if they need to manage their weight and health. Following my recent interview with Dr. Ornish, I sincerely doubt THAT will ever happen." But I say in my new book that there are many people who should be eating less refined carbohydrates--and more unrefined, high-fiber carbs, not necessarily more fat.

I had hoped that we could get past these stereotypes.

With best wishes,

Dean

As I sat there and read Dr. Ornish's e-mail, I pondered what he had to say. But I couldn't help but come back to the elementary questions that still linger in the back of my mind about what he thinks we all "agree" on when very clearly we have some major differences about livin' la vida low-carb that he continues to deny.

Here was my response:

Hello Dr. Ornish,

THANKS for your e-mail. With regard to your concerns about my latest blog column which discusses Dr. Andrew Weil agreeing that total carbohydrate restriction in conjunction with an increase in fat intake as outlined by Gary Taubes in GOOD CALORIES BAD CALORIES is indeed based on solid scientific evidence and experience, I don't see where we're in disagreement about this. We both agree that controlling at least some carbohydrate intake and consuming at least some fat is indeed a healthy way to keep your weight reduced and your health in order.

What we do disagree on is by how much.

I'm sorry if you feel my using you as an analogy of the magnitude of this change in perspective by Dr. Weil in favor of a more carbohydrate-restricted for weight and health management was inaccurate. But based on both what I read in your book THE SPECTRUM and heard directly from you during our 100-minute interview a few weeks back, I did not sense any agreement on your end that a moderate-to-high fat, controlled-carbohydrate ketogenic dietary approach as espoused by the late Dr. Robert C. Atkins and then brought back to the discussion by Gary Taubes is one you would even remotely consider recommending for anyone as part of your "spectrum" of choices since most of the foods that fall within this way of eating are in Group 5--what you consider the "least healthy" choices. Please tell me where I got it wrong, Dr. Ornish, because it looks like I've hit the nail on the head about what you believe based on what I've read and heard from you.

Based on that alone, it appears what I stated was not inaccurate at all. Please feel free to correct my misunderstanding if you would like because I'm sincerely interested in what you have to say about what you believe regarding a high-fat, low-carb diet. I'm happy to give you the opportunity to officially come out and state with great clarity that you believe a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet is indeed an acceptable way for certain people to manage their weight and health.

I'd be delighted to share this great news with my enthusiastic readers that we all agree this particular nutritional approach is one you endorse just like Dr. Weil does now. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to share that Dr. Dean Ornish agrees with so many of my readers that restricting carbohydrate intake and consuming fat can be a part of a healthy lifestyle. Keep in mind, this isn't a low-fat vs. low-carb issue either. It's simply about realizing and recognizing that there are certain ends of your "spectrum" which aren't as unhealthy as you claim. Despite that, though, we're absolutely all in agreement, right?

THANKS for sharing your concerns and I do hope to hear back from you soon with a crystal clear message of support for livin' la vida low-carb that I can share with my readers. Take care! :)

Jimmy Moore

It has been five days since I sent that e-mail to Dr. Ornish and he has yet to respond. I suppose we can deduct from his failure to provide an answer to my simple question about where he stands regarding a high-fat, low-carb diet for certain people that he still believes it is unhealthy. That's too bad since most of the health establishment is in major disagreement with him about his monopolistic low-fat, high-carb recommendations for everyone. Even Dr. Weil no longer believes that.

The floor is still open to you, Dr. Ornish. If you truly want to mend the fences you have destroyed by needlessly attacking the Atkins diet over the years, then here is the PERFECT chance for you to do it. Reach across the aisle to your low-carb counterparts and tell us where we have common ground with you since we all agree total carbohydrate restriction and increased fat intake is an essential to a healthy lifestyle. You wanted the opportunity and here it is.

How about it, Dr. Dean Ornish? Are you supporting livin' la vida low-carb as a viable nutritional approach for controlling weight and health? Admit a high-fat, low-carb diet is healthy. It's not a difficult question and we're patiently awaiting your answer.

'Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Show' Episode 118: Whatever You Do, Don't Call Dean Ornish A Low-Fat Vegetarian

Dr. Dean Ornish continues discussing his new book The Spectrum

Today is the fourth and final segment of my interview with low-fat diet activist Dr. Dean Ornish discussing the concepts in his new book The Spectrum: A Scientifically Proven Program to Feel Better, Live Longer, Lose Weight, and Gain Health. In case you missed any of the previous three podcasts featuring the first three parts of my interview with Dr. Ornish, then you can listen to Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3 right now.

In Episode 118 of "The Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Show with Jimmy Moore", Dr. Ornish and I talk about his diet philosophy where he gets rather angry at me for suggesting that his dietary recommendations are a low-fat, high-carb diet. He repeated asked me to stop characterizing his work as a "low-fat" diet and that he's tired of compartmentalizing the dietary debate as "low-fat vs. low-carb." I couldn't agree more, although the totality of what he wrote in his book is overwhelmingly a low-fat, vegetarian diet. The truth hurts, Dr. Ornish!

Click on the "LISTEN NOW" link below or download Part 4 to your iPod to hear Episode 118:

"The Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Show with Jimmy Moore" Episode 118 [21:33m]: LISTEN NOW | Download

You'll notice very quickly in this episode that Dr. Ornish was getting a bit testy and didn't appreciate the questions I was asking him. It was as if he was hoping for another breeze of an interview like the one we did back in October 2006. Nope, not this time. I had to call his bluff when I believed he was wrong, although Dr. Ornish insisted that we don't disagree on many points. That was a clever tactic he kept using, but I wasn't buying it and neither was anyone listening.

I'll be expounding on my post-interview thoughts in a blog post very soon, but for now let's just say it was good to see that we at least could come together to talk about a very real difference ideas without resorting to needless name calling or disparaging remarks. You could tell at the conclusion of the interview that Dr. Ornish appreciates the work I am doing and acknowledged it as much in his closing remarks. I appreciate and respect that he sees the positive of what I do despite his disagreements with what I share.

Check out the latest info from top health experts anytime by:

1. Listening at the official web site
2. Calling (818) 688-2763 to listen via Podlinez
3. Subscribing to the RSS feed
4. Going to iTunes--Click here to subscribe!

My interview with Dr. Dean Ornish is finished now, so please share your comments in the show notes section of Part 4 in Episode 118 to compile what you think about Dr. Ornish and his new book The Spectrum. Was there anything I forgot to ask him about? What did you like best about the interview? Is there anything I could have done to make it even better? Please share your thoughts!

As I previously stated, I will be writing a blog post in the next few days with my thoughts about this Ornish interview. I certainly give him credit for being willing to speak with somebody like me because he didn't have to talk to me at all. But he came to me requesting the interview and I was grateful for the opportunity to share about his new book and his attempt to continue forging that "common ground" with low-carbers. Although he's still got a long way to go, it's an important first step.

We'll be keeping the lines of communication open for future opportunities to interview Dr. Dean Ornish and any other low-fat diet supporters who want to appear on my podcast show. Hopefully I've shown that we can disagree without being disagreeable and that an open and honest debate of ideas is always welcomed for better understanding of diet, health and nutrition. THANKS for listening and we'll be back again on Monday with another episode of "The Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Show with Jimmy Moore."

'Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Show' Episode 117: Does Dean Ornish Now Support A Low-Carb Diet?

Dr. Dean Ornish continues discussing his new book The Spectrum

We pick up with Part 3 of my four-part interview with low-fat diet activist Dr. Dean Ornish today talking about his new book The Spectrum: A Scientifically Proven Program to Feel Better, Live Longer, Lose Weight, and Gain Health (Click here to listen to Part 1 and Part 2). In Episode 117 of "The Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Show with Jimmy Moore", Dr. Ornish shares why he believes the theories espoused by people like Gary Taubes (author of Good Calories, Bad Calories) are foolish and irrelevant, why HDL cholesterol is not as good as we think it is, and how taking a few moments to reflect on life in the quiet moments of the day is just as important to health as what you eat.

Click on the "LISTEN NOW" link below or download Part 3 to your iPod to hear Episode 117:

"The Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Show with Jimmy Moore" Episode 117 [29:59m]: LISTEN NOW | Download

Although I treated Dr. Ornish with nothing but respect, you'll notice I openly challenged him at times about what he believes and why he believes it. So when I asked him point blank if he supports the idea that people should find the plan that works for them, follow that plan exactly as prescribed, and then keep doing that plan for the rest of their life, Dr. Ornish replied that he agrees a customized program for the individual is indeed the approach he supports with The Spectrum. Ergo, you can say that he now has shown support for a low-carb diet, right? Because we all agree a low-carb diet is a healthy one, right Dr. Ornish? THANKS for agreeing with us finally.

Hear interviews with Dr. Dean Ornish and others anytime by:

1. Listening at the official web site
2. Calling (818) 688-2763 to listen via Podlinez
3. Subscribing to the RSS feed
4. Going to iTunes--Click here to subscribe!

With only one more segment to go in my four-part interview with Dr. Dean Ornish, please leave your remarks in the show notes section of Part 3 in Episode 117 and let us know what you think about Dr. Ornish and his new book The Spectrum. Are you buying anything he has to say so far? Has his recommendations evolved at all from his radical high-carb, low-fat diet dogma from the past three decades?

Be sure you tune in on Thursday for Part 4 of my interview with Dr. Dean Ornish at "The Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Show with Jimmy Moore." When the podcast has finished, I'll probably write a blog post with my afterthoughts of this interview like I did with my previous interview with Dr. Ornish. I've got a whole lot to say about this one as you can imagine!

'Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Show' Episode 115 & 116: Dean Ornish, Jimmy Moore Debate 'The Spectrum'

Dr. Dean Ornish talks with me about his new book The Spectrum

Before I left for vacation last weekend, I teased you when I revealed there would be a special 4-part interview with someone in the realm of diet, health and nutrition beginning this past week and continuing into next week. Now that I'm back, I guess you've discovered who it was already--low-fat diet advocate Dr. Dean Ornish. He contacted me about a month ago and asked if I would like to interview him again about his new book entitled The Spectrum: A Scientifically Proven Program to Feel Better, Live Longer, Lose Weight, and Gain Health. As my regular readers will recall, that previous 4-part interview in October 2006 was pretty much an open invitation for Dr. Ornish to share what he believes without any challenge whatsoever. Listen to Part 1 and Part 2 of that interview to hear what he had to say.

But in Episode 115 and Episode 116 of "The Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Show with Jimmy Moore", you'll notice a decidedly different tone this time around by design. Even Dr. Ornish requested me to feel free to challenge and question him on areas where we disagreed. And boy did I ever! Although Dr. Ornish continually tried to say we agreed with each other about various concepts, it was very evident that we clearly DO NOT agree as much as he thinks. You'll hear the frustration in my voice when he claims "we all agree" on this and that when we obviously don't. The back and forth exchange was fiery at times, but that sure makes for an entertaining podcast interview to listen to, though! :D

Click on the "LISTEN NOW" link below or download Part 1 to your iPod to hear Episode 115:

"The Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Show with Jimmy Moore" Episode 115 [22:10m]: LISTEN NOW | Download

Click on the "LISTEN NOW" link below or download Part 2 to your iPod to hear Episode 116:

"The Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Show with Jimmy Moore" Episode 116 [28:46m]: LISTEN NOW | Download

Dr. Dean Ornish is very polished in his presentation of what he believes about a healthy diet. The only problem is he is so deep into his own philosophical views and talking points that he forgets to answer the questions that are presented to him in black and white. Several times I asked him questions that merited a direct answer and he breezed right over them with something tee-totally different. Why is that? Is it so difficult to give a direct answer to a direct question, Dr. Ornish?

Get more exclusive interviews and health news anytime by:

1. Listening at the official web site
2. Calling (818) 688-2763 to listen via Podlinez
3. Subscribing to the RSS feed
4. Going to iTunes--Click here to subscribe!

We've got two more segments of my 100-minute interview with Dr. Dean Ornish, but tell us what you think about what you've heard so far. Leave your comments in the show notes section of Part 1 in Episode 115 as well as Part 2 in Episode 116 to share your thoughts about what you have heard from Dr. Ornish and his new book The Spectrum.

Incidentally, here is the breakdown of the five groups in The Spectrum from "most healthy" to "least healthy" according to Dr. Ornish (I OBVIOUSLY disagree with his definition of "healthy" and categorization of what that constitutes):

Group 1
These are the most healthful foods, predominantly fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes, soy products, nonfat dairy, and egg whites in their natural forms, as well as some good fats that contain omega‑3 fatty acids.

Group 2
These are also predominantly plant-based but somewhat higher in fat (predominantly monounsaturated fat and polyunsaturated fat) such as avocados, seeds, nuts. Oils are included but in small amounts, since they are so dense in calories. Group 2 also includes foods canned in water (rather than sugary syrup or oil), canned vegetables (if sodium is not too high), low-fat dairy products (1%), decaffeinated beverages, low-sodium soy sauce, and so on.

Group 3
These foods include some seafood, some refined carbohydrates (Dr. Ornish has an interesting explanation in Part 2 of my interview about why these were not listed in Group 5) and concentrated sweeteners (in moderation), some oils that are higher in saturated fat, some reduced fat (2%) dairy products, margarines free of trans fatty acids, sweeteners containing high fructose corn syrup, and higher sodium.

Group 4
In this group foods contain additional fat, higher animal protein and fewer protective nutrients. These include poultry, fish that are higher in mercury, whole milk/dairy products, margarine, mayonnaise, pastries, cakes, cookies, and pies.

Group 5
In general, these foods are considered the least healthful. They are the lowest in protective substances and are highest in “bad fats.” Some food included in this group are red meat, egg yolks, fried poultry, fried fish, hot dogs, organ meats, butter, cream, and tropical oils like coconut oil.

UGH! As you can see, he's just about got the Groups backwards! When you see that refined carbohydrates are middle of the road "healthy" and egg yolks, butter and coconut oil are considered "least healthy," then you know we have a very clear difference of opinion regarding what is healthy and what is not. Keep listening to the rest of the interview to hear more about why Dr. Ornish thinks The Spectrum is far superior to anything he has ever written about nutrition before and why I think it is nothing more than the same old, same old we've always heard from him. I'll let YOU decide who to believe after listening to the final two segments of the interview on "The Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Show with Jimmy Moore."